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Successful Traders are like Predators
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Author Successful Traders are like Predators
trendy
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Post: #1   PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Successful Traders are like Predators Reply with quote

I liked this so much that I re-read this very often. Hope it is useful to you as well.




Successful Traders are like Predators.

What do you want to be?
A Predator or A Prey.



Cheers!
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amitagg
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Post: #2   PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U can read " new market wizards " and come up with many more anecdotes!
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opportunist
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Post: #3   PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Successful Traders are like Predators Reply with quote

When Seykota compares traders to Cheetahs he perhaps assumes that the reader knows the fact that Cheetahs though fast cannot run very long. They tire very easily. So they need to time their efforts very well. They cannot afford to chase around 10 preys and catch 1. Their fat reserves are much lower than other animals in their groups because their body is designed for tremendous speed, the highest in the world.


The wikipedia says:"The cheetah will stalk their prey to within 100–300 m (330–980 ft); it will try to approach it as closely as possible while concealing itself in cover, sometimes even up to 60 m (200 ft) of the prey. The cheetah will crouch and move slowly while stalking, occasionally becoming motionless. The chase usually lasts less than a minute; if the cheetah fails to make a kill quickly, it will give up. Cheetahs have an average hunting success rate of 40 to 50%. "


So a cheetah must catch a prey once every two tries. Where this fact is relevant to traders is that the latter must also be careful not to run after any and every opportunity. In case of traders if the trade does not go well they must quickly withdraw minimising their losses. In terms of the Cheetah, if the prey manages to escape then the Cheetah should not keep chasing and turn his attention to other nearby preys.

Regards,
Oppo


trendy wrote:
I liked this so much that I re-read this very often. Hope it is useful to you as well.




Successful Traders are like Predators.

What do you want to be?
A Predator or A Prey.



Cheers!
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skaz
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Post: #4   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trendy and opportunist good stuff.. keep it up Very Happy
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pkholla
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Post: #5   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Predator, prey or fisherman? Reply with quote

Many successful traders (like IC's JT, Oppo, Alchemist, Vinay28, Apka, Rita Pandit, etc) are like fishermen who keep a net in the path of the current (trend) after observing the movement of target fish! They keep getting a good qty of fish this way without being predator or prey! Sometimes they also get multi-baggers, like marlin fish (which can grow upto 1000 lb), if the net is strong enough
Cheers, Prakash Holla
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shaheerzaman
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Post: #6   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Predator, prey or fisherman? Reply with quote

Prakash,

you are living in a delusion. Almost all traders without exception including the names you mentioned below lose money. Stop being naive.

Regards
Shaheer



pkholla wrote:
Many successful traders (like IC's JT, Oppo, Alchemist, Vinay28, Apka, Rita Pandit, etc) are like fishermen who keep a net in the path of the current (trend) after observing the movement of target fish! They keep getting a good qty of fish this way without being predator or prey! Sometimes they also get multi-baggers, like marlin fish (which can grow upto 1000 lb), if the net is strong enough
Cheers, Prakash Holla
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Post: #7   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Predator, prey or fisherman? Reply with quote

shaheerzaman wrote:
Prakash, you are living in a delusion. Almost all traders without exception including the names you mentioned below lose money. Stop being naive. Regards Shaheer

Dear Shaheer,
Speaking for myself, I have 62 pair - trades this year (buy-loss) ending in Rs 122000 short term profit with only 2 losses
In FY 16-17 I made 249 pair trades with Rs 550000 short term profit, only 3 losses
There is an IC member called Umesh1 who has higher quantum of profit than me (He taught me to keep booking and re-entering)
Many traders consistently make money incl JT who regularly takes holidays in Goa (from base in Bombay) on his trading income
I am afraid it is you who are delusional as you may be in the habit of loss making, tarring everyone with the same brush!?
Cheers and rgds, Prakash Holla
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shaheerzaman
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Post: #8   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Predator, prey or fisherman? Reply with quote

pkholla wrote:
shaheerzaman wrote:
Prakash, you are living in a delusion. Almost all traders without exception including the names you mentioned below lose money. Stop being naive. Regards Shaheer

Dear Shaheer,
Speaking for myself, I have 62 pair - trades this year (buy-loss) ending in Rs 122000 short term profit with only 2 losses
In FY 16-17 I made 249 pair trades with Rs 550000 short term profit, only 3 losses
There is an IC member called Umesh1 who has higher quantum of profit than me (He taught me to keep booking and re-entering)
Many traders consistently make money incl JT who regularly takes holidays in Goa (from base in Bombay) on his trading income
I am afraid it it you who are delusional as you may be in the habit of loss making, tarring everyone with the same brush!
Cheers and rgds, Prakash Holla


Prakash,

If you are such a good trader, then you would be richer than Warren Buffet. You are fake and pretentious. The fairy tales you mentioned above are just that fairy tales not facts. Children and fools will believe your stories. Not me.

Regards
Shaheer
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opportunist
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Post: #9   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Predator, prey or fisherman? Reply with quote

Hi Shaheer,

You are absolutely right for yourself. Since you never believe that Ichartians make money you will never be able to believe their suggestions and hence will NEVER make money yourself.

It is said that what you achieve is what you believe. I used to make consistent losses but had a belief deep inside that someday I would be able to learn the techniques and discipline myself to turn the tables and make regular profits. Well I have achieved that and reason for that is majorly the Ichart community who has helped me with their wisdom.

Lastly let me tell something for all others even if you do not want to listen to me or any Ichartian. It is a bit technical but is the heart of any trading setup and the reason why anyone can and does make consistent profits:

Any trading will always carry some risk and there will be some trades which will cause losses. But the professional trader does one thing which novices don’t, they ensure that their profits are higher than losses. So even if one is right 50% times they can still be net positive. This is done by figuring a practical target and setting stop loss half of that. So in 100 trades if I am wrong 50 times I lose half of what I gain in the other 50 trades where I am right ( that is, in trades where I am able to reach the target). So end of the end I am net positive. If I lose 50 I have also gained 100. So net net I am 100-50=50 positive.

A good trader makes money not because of his strategies but his ability to limit his losses to amounts far greater than his profits. If are you are ready to think about it you may realise one day how valuable that statement is for a successful trader.

Regards,
Oppo


shaheerzaman wrote:
pkholla wrote:
shaheerzaman wrote:
Prakash, you are living in a delusion. Almost all traders without exception including the names you mentioned below lose money. Stop being naive. Regards Shaheer

Dear Shaheer,
Speaking for myself, I have 62 pair - trades this year (buy-loss) ending in Rs 122000 short term profit with only 2 losses
In FY 16-17 I made 249 pair trades with Rs 550000 short term profit, only 3 losses
There is an IC member called Umesh1 who has higher quantum of profit than me (He taught me to keep booking and re-entering)
Many traders consistently make money incl JT who regularly takes holidays in Goa (from base in Bombay) on his trading income
I am afraid it it you who are delusional as you may be in the habit of loss making, tarring everyone with the same brush!
Cheers and rgds, Prakash Holla


Prakash,

If you are such a good trader, then you would be richer than Warren Buffet. You are fake and pretentious. The fairy tales you mentioned above are just that fairy tales not facts. Children and fools will believe your stories. Not me.

Regards
Shaheer
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shaheerzaman
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Post: #10   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Predator, prey or fisherman? Reply with quote

Opportunist,

I don't need your blessings and advice to make money. The position sizing you mentioned above is for primary school kids. Read some probability theory, specially books by Ed Thorpe and then we can talk. I don't like arguing with ignorant charlatans.

Regards
Shaheer.


opportunist wrote:
Hi Shaheer,

You are absolutely right for yourself. Since you never believe that Ichartians make money you will never be able to believe their suggestions and hence will NEVER make money yourself.

It is said that what you achieve is what you believe. I used to make consistent losses but had a belief deep inside that someday I would be able to learn the techniques and discipline myself to turn the tables and make regular profits. Well I have achieved that and reason for that is majorly the Ichart community who has helped me with their wisdom.

Lastly let me tell something for all others even if you do not want to listen to me or any Ichartian. It is a bit technical but is the heart of any trading setup and the reason why anyone can and does make consistent profits:


Any trading will always carry some risk and there will be some trades which will cause losses. But the professional trader does one thing which novices don’t, they ensure that their profits are higher than losses. So even if one is right 50% times they can still be net positive. This is done by figuring a practical target and setting stop loss half of that. So in 100 trades if I am wrong 50 times I lose half of what I gain in the other 50 trades where I am right ( that is, in trades where I am able to reach the target). So end of the end I am net positive. If I lose 50 I have also gained 100. So net net I am 100-50=50 positive.

A good trader makes money not because of his strategies but his ability to limit his losses to amounts far greater than his profits. If are you are ready to think about it you may realise one day how valuable that statement is for a successful trader.

Regards,
Oppo


shaheerzaman wrote:
pkholla wrote:
shaheerzaman wrote:
Prakash, you are living in a delusion. Almost all traders without exception including the names you mentioned below lose money. Stop being naive. Regards Shaheer

Dear Shaheer,
Speaking for myself, I have 62 pair - trades this year (buy-loss) ending in Rs 122000 short term profit with only 2 losses
In FY 16-17 I made 249 pair trades with Rs 550000 short term profit, only 3 losses
There is an IC member called Umesh1 who has higher quantum of profit than me (He taught me to keep booking and re-entering)
Many traders consistently make money incl JT who regularly takes holidays in Goa (from base in Bombay) on his trading income
I am afraid it it you who are delusional as you may be in the habit of loss making, tarring everyone with the same brush!
Cheers and rgds, Prakash Holla


Prakash,

If you are such a good trader, then you would be richer than Warren Buffet. You are fake and pretentious. The fairy tales you mentioned above are just that fairy tales not facts. Children and fools will believe your stories. Not me.

Regards
Shaheer
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opportunist
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 356

Post: #11   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Predator, prey or fisherman? Reply with quote

Shaheer,

Please note that I am not trying to bless or curse you. I am neither a Godman nor God who can do that.

My vocabulary for abuse is not as good but even if it were I would not take such liberties in my comments to total strangers for no reason. Probably you may have lost a lot of money in the market which has made you bitter towards life and everyone in it.

Anyways I sympathise with the situation and pray that you quickly gain the wisdom to turn things around for yourself.

Regards,

Oppo




shaheerzaman wrote:
Opportunist,

I don't need your blessings and advice to make money. The position sizing you mentioned above is for primary school kids. Read some probability theory, specially books by Ed Thorpe and then we can talk. I don't like arguing with ignorant charlatans.

Regards
Shaheer.


opportunist wrote:
Hi Shaheer,

You are absolutely right for yourself. Since you never believe that Ichartians make money you will never be able to believe their suggestions and hence will NEVER make money yourself.

It is said that what you achieve is what you believe. I used to make consistent losses but had a belief deep inside that someday I would be able to learn the techniques and discipline myself to turn the tables and make regular profits. Well I have achieved that and reason for that is majorly the Ichart community who has helped me with their wisdom.

Lastly let me tell something for all others even if you do not want to listen to me or any Ichartian. It is a bit technical but is the heart of any trading setup and the reason why anyone can and does make consistent profits:


Any trading will always carry some risk and there will be some trades which will cause losses. But the professional trader does one thing which novices don’t, they ensure that their profits are higher than losses. So even if one is right 50% times they can still be net positive. This is done by figuring a practical target and setting stop loss half of that. So in 100 trades if I am wrong 50 times I lose half of what I gain in the other 50 trades where I am right ( that is, in trades where I am able to reach the target). So end of the end I am net positive. If I lose 50 I have also gained 100. So net net I am 100-50=50 positive.

A good trader makes money not because of his strategies but his ability to limit his losses to amounts far greater than his profits. If are you are ready to think about it you may realise one day how valuable that statement is for a successful trader.

Regards,
Oppo


shaheerzaman wrote:
pkholla wrote:
shaheerzaman wrote:
Prakash, you are living in a delusion. Almost all traders without exception including the names you mentioned below lose money. Stop being naive. Regards Shaheer

Dear Shaheer,
Speaking for myself, I have 62 pair - trades this year (buy-loss) ending in Rs 122000 short term profit with only 2 losses
In FY 16-17 I made 249 pair trades with Rs 550000 short term profit, only 3 losses
There is an IC member called Umesh1 who has higher quantum of profit than me (He taught me to keep booking and re-entering)
Many traders consistently make money incl JT who regularly takes holidays in Goa (from base in Bombay) on his trading income
I am afraid it it you who are delusional as you may be in the habit of loss making, tarring everyone with the same brush!
Cheers and rgds, Prakash Holla


Prakash,

If you are such a good trader, then you would be richer than Warren Buffet. You are fake and pretentious. The fairy tales you mentioned above are just that fairy tales not facts. Children and fools will believe your stories. Not me.

Regards
Shaheer
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amitagg
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Post: #12   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opportunist nice balanced response is well appreciated in context
Shaheer - you are entitled to your views and their is a bit of truth in both sides I would believe ; so all are in equal plane
It depends on the phase of trading you find yourself in
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trendy
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Post: #13   PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rakesh Jhunjhunwala in 2014 said only 50 (Fifty) traders out of 10 Lakh really makes money in Trading, rest of the traders are lying. SEBI studies have also proved the same. I may not be able to post links due to iCharts restrictions but anyone can google and easily find out the video.

PS: Check it out before admin deletes it. Very Happy You may go directly to 2:04 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrjSALD2Uak

Now, without getting personal and certifying anyone, lets summarize the topic with couple of points here

1. Successful traders (Predators) wait for No-brainier/Almost Sure-shot/effortless trades
2. Successful traders (Predators) have proven Trading-edge, Method, Risk and Money management plans and follow them with discipline, patience and confidence.

So, as per Predator/Prey Self-certification Test Very Happy its simple, answer for yourself, if you get response as 'Yes' for both points, you are 'Predator'. Other wise 'Prey', trading at the mercy of Predator. Of-course, Preys can put in some effort and transform into Predators in financial market jungle. Very Happy

Also see
http://www.icharts.in/forum/ladder-steps-for-trader-t6010.html

Cheers!


Last edited by trendy on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
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opportunist
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Post: #14   PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear,

I read somewhere that some of the best trades are ones which are not taken and sometimes the best position in your portfolio is "Cash". The first rule of investing as Buffett says is "Never lose money". The second one is "Never forget the first rule". Smile I think it applies to trading too. So waiting patiently is a prime virtue of any trader.


Please dont start believing what SEBI or Jhunjhunwala says. Believe in yourself. What is the probability that at least half of that 50 successful traders are not ichartians? I have rarely come across such a dynamic group on the net. But if you believe you are beaten then you already are. Close your account and go home.


It is Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). If you keep thinking in your mind that you are going to lose it will happen. If you keep suggesting that something good will happen you will get to do things which will make it happen. Because you will get over the bad part with a positive thought that "this too shall pass". This is not magic, NLP is a well studied scientific phenomena. Granted that only few will succeed in Trading but then few succeed in participating in a race and only one guy wins the gold medal in an Olympic event every 4 years. Do you think there is less participation in the world for this low probability?


So have faith or go home.

Regards,
Oppo


trendy wrote:
Rakesh Jhunjhunwala in 2014 said only 50 (Fifty) traders out of 10 Lakh really makes money in Trading, rest of the traders are lying. SEBI studies have also proved the same. I may not be able to post links due to iCharts restrictions but anyone can google and easily find out the video.

Now, without getting personal and certifying anyone, lets summarize the topic with couple of points here

1. Successful traders (Predators) wait for No-brainier/Almost Sure-shot/effortless trades
2. Successful traders (Predators) have proven Trading-edge, Method, Risk and Money management plans and follow them with discipline, patience and confidence.

So, as per Predator/Prey Theory Very Happy its simple, answer for yourself, if you get response as 'Yes' for both points, you are 'Predator'. Other wise 'Prey', trading at the mercy of Predator. Of-course, Preys can put in some effort and transform into Predators in financial market jungle. Very Happy

Also see
http://www.icharts.in/forum/ladder-steps-for-trader-t6010.html

Cheers!
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trendy
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Post: #15   PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is Rakesh Jhunjhunwala video I talked about earlier. Check it out before admin deletes it. Very Happy You may go directly to 2:04 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrjSALD2Uak

Ignoring RJ and SEBI is like ignoring Sachin and BCCI when he says only 50 players are really successful in cricket. Facts are facts.

World has moved to HFT,AT and Algos long back and trading successfully without human intervention, how much of this success should be attributed to NLP?

With 15yrs of active Trading career, 11 years in icharts and some years of full-time Trading, I can say successful trading is not about learning 000's of indicators/methods/systems/HeinkinAshi/Renko/ichimoku/WolfeWave/Elliotwave/Gann/NeoWaveThoery/NLP/new fads etc but to unlearn most of them and keeping it simple.

Anyways, I rest my case here. Happy Trading!

Cheers!!
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