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Successful Traders are like Predators
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Author Successful Traders are like Predators
shaheerzaman
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Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 93

Post: #16   PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opportunity,

I rightly called you a charlatan. When a charlatan doesn't know maths, he takes refuge in psycho babbling bullshit promoting it as science. I cannot debate with a loser who quotes some self help bullshit and then calls it science.




opportunist wrote:
Dear,

I read somewhere that some of the best trades are ones which are not taken and sometimes the best position in your portfolio is "Cash". The first rule of investing as Buffett says is "Never lose money". The second one is "Never forget the first rule". Smile I think it applies to trading too. So waiting patiently is a prime virtue of any trader.


Please dont start believing what SEBI or Jhunjhunwala says. Believe in yourself. What is the probability that at least half of that 50 successful traders are not ichartians? I have rarely come across such a dynamic group on the net. But if you believe you are beaten then you already are. Close your account and go home.


It is Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). If you keep thinking in your mind that you are going to lose it will happen. If you keep suggesting that something good will happen you will get to do things which will make it happen. Because you will get over the bad part with a positive thought that "this too shall pass". This is not magic, NLP is a well studied scientific phenomena. Granted that only few will succeed in Trading but then few succeed in participating in a race and only one guy wins the gold medal in an Olympic event every 4 years. Do you think there is less participation in the world for this low probability?


So have faith or go home.

Regards,
Oppo


trendy wrote:
Rakesh Jhunjhunwala in 2014 said only 50 (Fifty) traders out of 10 Lakh really makes money in Trading, rest of the traders are lying. SEBI studies have also proved the same. I may not be able to post links due to iCharts restrictions but anyone can google and easily find out the video.

Now, without getting personal and certifying anyone, lets summarize the topic with couple of points here

1. Successful traders (Predators) wait for No-brainier/Almost Sure-shot/effortless trades
2. Successful traders (Predators) have proven Trading-edge, Method, Risk and Money management plans and follow them with discipline, patience and confidence.

So, as per Predator/Prey Theory Very Happy its simple, answer for yourself, if you get response as 'Yes' for both points, you are 'Predator'. Other wise 'Prey', trading at the mercy of Predator. Of-course, Preys can put in some effort and transform into Predators in financial market jungle. Very Happy

Also see
http://www.icharts.in/forum/ladder-steps-for-trader-t6010.html

Cheers!
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opportunist
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 356

Post: #17   PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear all,

The pattern is predictable.

Step 1: Ask a seemingly innocent question. (almost like “bhaiya,hum cholrmint kyon khatey hai? Smile ” )

Step 2: Attack the answer based on questioner’s limited understanding garnished with a deeply negative attitude of “kuch bhi bolo sab jhuth hai”

Step 3: Berate the answerer as worthless and a liar and feel superior (that was the original goal) because you have “honestly failed” to make money in the market and therefore you are right in front of all those who claim to make money at all ! What a perverse pleasure! When the answerer talks of positive attitude and faith it is “psycho babble” it is quickly dismissed. Why? because high Frequency / Algorithmic trading has made humans redundant. Oh really? Then what are you doing here in the first place? Trading? Oh I forgot. You are here to “honestly fail” in making money in the market and prove Jhunjhunwala and SEBI right. Hahahahah!
When the answer discusses Risk reward ratio and position sizing it is too simple a math and honestly you are supposed to fail in front of Algo trading in the first place na! Surely without complicated equations from nobel laureates like in the case of LTCM how can the failure be spectacularly awesome ?

Step 4: After having been vindicated by Jhunjhunwala, SEBI and algo traders in their skepticism of other people’s abilities and having vanquished all these petty liars who have dared to make idiotic claims of consistent profits in icharts you feel the conquest is complete.

Well please continue to play the game if you like but now we know the trouble makers.
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opportunist
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Post: #18   PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhai Shaheer,

Main to jhutha makkar hoon. Lekin up to “honest” ho. Smile So if you honestly can’t make money how do you keep on trading? How or rather Why do you continue be on a trading website?

Regards,
Oppo


shaheerzaman wrote:
Opportunity,

I rightly called you a charlatan. When a charlatan doesn't know maths, he takes refuge in psycho babbling bullshit promoting it as science. I cannot debate with a loser who quotes some self help bullshit and then calls it science.




opportunist wrote:
Dear,

I read somewhere that some of the best trades are ones which are not taken and sometimes the best position in your portfolio is "Cash". The first rule of investing as Buffett says is "Never lose money". The second one is "Never forget the first rule". Smile I think it applies to trading too. So waiting patiently is a prime virtue of any trader.


Please dont start believing what SEBI or Jhunjhunwala says. Believe in yourself. What is the probability that at least half of that 50 successful traders are not ichartians? I have rarely come across such a dynamic group on the net. But if you believe you are beaten then you already are. Close your account and go home.


It is Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). If you keep thinking in your mind that you are going to lose it will happen. If you keep suggesting that something good will happen you will get to do things which will make it happen. Because you will get over the bad part with a positive thought that "this too shall pass". This is not magic, NLP is a well studied scientific phenomena. Granted that only few will succeed in Trading but then few succeed in participating in a race and only one guy wins the gold medal in an Olympic event every 4 years. Do you think there is less participation in the world for this low probability?


So have faith or go home.

Regards,
Oppo


trendy wrote:
Rakesh Jhunjhunwala in 2014 said only 50 (Fifty) traders out of 10 Lakh really makes money in Trading, rest of the traders are lying. SEBI studies have also proved the same. I may not be able to post links due to iCharts restrictions but anyone can google and easily find out the video.

Now, without getting personal and certifying anyone, lets summarize the topic with couple of points here

1. Successful traders (Predators) wait for No-brainier/Almost Sure-shot/effortless trades
2. Successful traders (Predators) have proven Trading-edge, Method, Risk and Money management plans and follow them with discipline, patience and confidence.

So, as per Predator/Prey Theory Very Happy its simple, answer for yourself, if you get response as 'Yes' for both points, you are 'Predator'. Other wise 'Prey', trading at the mercy of Predator. Of-course, Preys can put in some effort and transform into Predators in financial market jungle. Very Happy

Also see
http://www.icharts.in/forum/ladder-steps-for-trader-t6010.html

Cheers!
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shaheerzaman
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Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 93

Post: #19   PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not want to comment here on how much money I make. I am too honorable to judge life according to how much wealth one has.
Being on a trading site gives me an opportunity to expose liars and low life scums like you.




opportunist wrote:
Bhai Shaheer,

Main to jhutha makkar hoon. Lekin up to “honest” ho. Smile So if you honestly can’t make money how do you keep on trading? How or rather Why do you continue be on a trading website?

Regards,
Oppo


shaheerzaman wrote:
Opportunity,

I rightly called you a charlatan. When a charlatan doesn't know maths, he takes refuge in psycho babbling bullshit promoting it as science. I cannot debate with a loser who quotes some self help bullshit and then calls it science.




opportunist wrote:
Dear,

I read somewhere that some of the best trades are ones which are not taken and sometimes the best position in your portfolio is "Cash". The first rule of investing as Buffett says is "Never lose money". The second one is "Never forget the first rule". Smile I think it applies to trading too. So waiting patiently is a prime virtue of any trader.


Please dont start believing what SEBI or Jhunjhunwala says. Believe in yourself. What is the probability that at least half of that 50 successful traders are not ichartians? I have rarely come across such a dynamic group on the net. But if you believe you are beaten then you already are. Close your account and go home.


It is Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). If you keep thinking in your mind that you are going to lose it will happen. If you keep suggesting that something good will happen you will get to do things which will make it happen. Because you will get over the bad part with a positive thought that "this too shall pass". This is not magic, NLP is a well studied scientific phenomena. Granted that only few will succeed in Trading but then few succeed in participating in a race and only one guy wins the gold medal in an Olympic event every 4 years. Do you think there is less participation in the world for this low probability?


So have faith or go home.

Regards,
Oppo


trendy wrote:
Rakesh Jhunjhunwala in 2014 said only 50 (Fifty) traders out of 10 Lakh really makes money in Trading, rest of the traders are lying. SEBI studies have also proved the same. I may not be able to post links due to iCharts restrictions but anyone can google and easily find out the video.

Now, without getting personal and certifying anyone, lets summarize the topic with couple of points here

1. Successful traders (Predators) wait for No-brainier/Almost Sure-shot/effortless trades
2. Successful traders (Predators) have proven Trading-edge, Method, Risk and Money management plans and follow them with discipline, patience and confidence.

So, as per Predator/Prey Theory Very Happy its simple, answer for yourself, if you get response as 'Yes' for both points, you are 'Predator'. Other wise 'Prey', trading at the mercy of Predator. Of-course, Preys can put in some effort and transform into Predators in financial market jungle. Very Happy

Also see
http://www.icharts.in/forum/ladder-steps-for-trader-t6010.html

Cheers!
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apka
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Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 6069

Post: #20   PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can identify yourself with the definition of a Predator and if you're confident in your abilities and in the phase of trading you are in (as amitgg said) then don't waste time on arguing because:
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skaz
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Joined: 30 Jul 2014
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Post: #21   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear ichartians,

few request to some of id who all have contributed to this thread. Thought of requesting as I know some of these IDs since many years.
honestly in my humble opinion it is an excellent thread started by opportunist and supported by trendy and others IDs.

few request to some id if you accept else leave it :

Shaheer bahi : You are mathematic wizard and have excellent understanding of law of probability. You are Drs in mathematic. Also you are an excellent trader, young and brilliant in understanding market dynamics. But you have seen many fake traders and fake orgasm and hence your point is valid to some extent.

Prakash : Sincere request to you. Bhai you can speak about yourself and your point of view. don't give certificate to other trader. As it has no meaning. As no one knows about them. You said you make 12 lac in a year. trust me it is good but may not attract many trader. As amount is very small. However if you ask me and if you are making money you are the boss and i will remember you as champion. As only1% or less traders make money consistently ( over a period of time) . Amount is not important. as I know some folks personally who got graduated in trading and earn much more. 12 lac in a year is too less.

Key this thread is important as it speaks about trader psychology and what it makes to make a successful trader. Else these days forum and SB full of Fekus and Gas.

Hence request to all of you to contribute in constructive manner. Very Happy
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pkholla
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Post: #22   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Tu, Tu, Main, Main, Tu, Tu! Reply with quote

Dear all
1 I only showed my earnings in reply to "EVERYONE LOSES in share market, NO ONE MAKES MONEY!" I am not boasting, there are many who make more, some who make less.
2 I stopped replying to XYZ because there is no logical reply to: YOU ARE FEKU, all are $%^&, we are #$%^, etc and it becomes like old TV show: Tu, tu, main, main, (saas/ bahu)
Let us concentrate on making money instead
3 Thanks to oppo for well reasoned posts outlining his trading philosophy and outlook
Cheers
Prakash Holla
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opportunist
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 356

Post: #23   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Skaz bhai for your positive take on things. Being positive in the face of loss is what I consider the most important asset for a trader who hopes to make a net profit in the long run. In mathematical terms it is called “positive expectancy” where

Expectancy = (Probability of Win * Average Win) - (Probability of Loss * Average Loss)

So if you can ensure that your average win in Silver is 1000 points and average loss by hitting the SL will be 500 points and if in half the trades (50%) you are right, then

Expectancy = 50%x1000-50%x500=500-250=250 points (net positive)


One should always refer to Van Tharp’s books and his website on expectancy and R-multiples to have a logical base to your trading skills. But being emotionally strong to apply the equation is equally if not more important. It is very easy to say you can lose in 50% trades and still make money by making your losses half of your wins as the above equation shows. But it is very difficult to do it in real life. It is very difficult to think positive once you have lost money in a trade. Dimag kaam nahin karta. At that time a strong belief in the maths and an attitude of “this too shall pass” is more than “psycho babble” as our learned friends would like to label.

I am telling this from my personal experience. When I used to lose money 3-4 years back I used to feel numb and tried to erase my memory altogether. Once I lost 30K in an hour over a NG trade. I lost interest in trading for months. Looking back I understand that I was trading on half baked understanding of the market dynamics and more importantly playing not to make money but more for the adrenalin rush of winning. It was a pure casino experience. And after winning or losing I never felt like analyzing the trade for why I won or lost. So I lost the lessons too I guess. For the NG case it was a simple exponential run on a mad Thursday evening (Thursday evenings are extremely volatile for NG) and I was an easy prey to the market. And I never analysed the Demand and Supply zones in higher TFs which I mandatorily do now before taking on a trade. Today I will never enter a trade for such short TFs and just because the momentum has spiked.

Recently I lost around 14K in a Crude trade trying to make money in a pullback when it hit SL. I had no issues because it was a well thought out trend trade and not taken in the heat of the moment. Next time I made 36K in SliverM (600 points as documented in another thread). Again it could have been 60K (24K more for 1000 points) but I wanted to follow the trend a little more and hit the SL. But I didn’t feel sad or agitated which I used to be earlier. I know tomorrow the sun will rise again and opportunities will present themselves in the market. As long as my winners surpass my losers I shall make net profit in a year.

I am saying all this not to win any argument but to help many traders who may be in the stage I was in 4 years back when I did that NG trade. One must believe and then try to figure out how to make money consistently. If Mr.Jhunjhunwala's comment is the only truth to be recognised then thousands of traders, PT Bhai and ST bhai should close down shop and go home.

Regards,
Oppo
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Alchemist
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Post: #24   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apka wrote:
If you can identify yourself with the definition of a Predator and if you're confident in your abilities and in the phase of trading you are in (as amitgg said) then don't waste time on arguing because:


apka - hahaha ! Stumbled upon this thread today and your quote really cracked me up 24
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apka
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Post: #25   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alchemist wrote:
apka - hahaha ! Stumbled upon this thread today and your quote really cracked me up 24


lol, it's as old as vsnl dial up but still funny.

Just so that others know it wasn't meant to be disrespective but just in light humour. What I intent to say is clearer from this image below.

So just keep doing your work and keep moving ahead, there's always going to be loud noises that try to distract and stop you.
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opportunist
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Post: #26   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Apka,

Why speak at all then? Just be absent from this thread altogether. Or is it that you want to sit on the sidelines taunt others and feel superior? I think that is the reason. There are many traders who are starting out or are not able to find their way and feeling lost and even a small advice can help them a long way in becoming successful traders.

This is not an entertainment website or a whatsapp group for chit chat. This is a serious place to learn and grow.

Regards,
Oppo


apka wrote:
Alchemist wrote:
apka - hahaha ! Stumbled upon this thread today and your quote really cracked me up 24


lol, it's as old as vsnl dial up but still funny.

Just so that others know it wasn't meant to be disrespective but just in light humour. What I intent to say is clearer from this image below.

So just keep doing your work and keep moving ahead, there's always going to be loud noises that try to distract and stop you.
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apka
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Post: #27   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

opportunist wrote:
So Apka,

Why speak at all then? Just be absent from this thread altogether. Or is it that you want to sit on the sidelines taunt others and feel superior? I think that is the reason.

This is not an entertainment website or a whatsapp group for chit chat. This is a serious place.


Uhm, you didn't get the cue -- it was not meant for you but those who were writing saying it's all a lie, etc and discouraging any progressive discussion. I have no need to get myself involved in somebody else's argument, therefore I haven't been direct with any names and I will be on the side. I did feel discussion was going wayward and sometimes it's okay to break something that isn't working by doing something unusual.

The ones who have gotten dragged into defending their words will continue to do until they stop looking at needless posts. That's all my intent was to say it's not necessary. And I won't explain myself again beyond this post.

You can take my word for what I have said or continue think of me as you have said. I don't have any need to please everyone.

And thanks for the advice what this site is about. After posting about more than 4000 chit chat things I finally understand I was living under a misapprehension Cool
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opportunist
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Post: #28   PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Apka if you are okay with what I am saying then there is no further issue but I am not writing here to win an argument, I have said that before. Certain things may look pointless to advanced traders but are nevertheless weighty issues to newcomers.

I am trying to help in whatever way I can the guys who feel lost and sometimes dont even know that there is a way out to make constant money. All great members here at Icharts including Alchemist had been the upholder of this noble tradition of helping newcomers (and even veterans having a bad time) which makes this website a great place to be.

Thanks and regards,
Oppo



apka wrote:
opportunist wrote:
So Apka,

Why speak at all then? Just be absent from this thread altogether. Or is it that you want to sit on the sidelines taunt others and feel superior? I think that is the reason.

This is not an entertainment website or a whatsapp group for chit chat. This is a serious place.


Uhm, you didn't get the cue -- it was not meant for you but those who were writing saying it's all a lie, etc and discouraging any progressive discussion. I have no need to get myself involved in somebody else's argument, therefore I haven't been direct with any names and I will be on the side. I did feel discussion was going wayward and sometimes it's okay to break something that isn't working by doing something unusual.

The ones who have gotten dragged into defending their words will continue to do until they stop looking at needless posts. That's all my intent was to say it's not necessary. And I won't explain myself again beyond this post.

You can take my word for what I have said or continue think of me as you have said. I don't have any need to please everyone.

And thanks for the advice what this site is about. After posting about more than 4000 chit chat things I finally understand I was living under a misapprehension Cool
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AmitSwl_FnO
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Post: #29   PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="shaheerzaman"]I did not want to comment here on how much money I make. I am too honorable to judge life according to how much wealth one has. Being on a trading site gives me an opportunity to expose liars and low life scums like you.

"jaani tumhara ghar sheeshe ka lag raha hai, aur doosaron per pathhar fank rahe ho...

None of the traders below (pkh,oppo,alche) are running a commercial tip providing thru i-charts...then what is the point in lying?
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shaheerzaman
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Post: #30   PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The recent warnings by Swing Trader vindicates my position. So after all these so called "successful" traders are not all saints.

So finally the one who laughs loud, laughs the loudest.

Shaheer

[quote="AmitSwl_FnO"]
shaheerzaman wrote:
I did not want to comment here on how much money I make. I am too honorable to judge life according to how much wealth one has. Being on a trading site gives me an opportunity to expose liars and low life scums like you.

"jaani tumhara ghar sheeshe ka lag raha hai, aur doosaron per pathhar fank rahe ho...

None of the traders below (pkh,oppo,alche) are running a commercial tip providing thru i-charts...then what is the point in lying?
Smile Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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